Horns at Texas tech

[VYFan]

One hip-check foul with two guys diving for the ball, and the other guy wasn’t even the tiniest bit hurt or even in momentary pain—just annoyed—and people think this should keep mattering?
First the tech fans overreact, then the refs overreact (ejection instead of technical), and now we are supposed to join the overreaction? It was just a foul going for the ball, not a punch, not wiping out a guy going for a layup, not Ron Artest, Draymond Green or whatever.

 

[guy4321]

I'd just muzzle McGuire!!

and unleash Brock.

 

[guy4321]

Yup. That count is now football and men's basketball.

and on March 10, we can add on baseball.

 

[NJlonghorn]

One hip-check foul with two guys diving for the ball, and the other guy wasn’t even the tiniest bit hurt or even in momentary pain—just annoyed—and people think this should keep mattering?
First the tech fans overreact, then the refs overreact (ejection instead of technical), and now we are supposed to join the overreaction? It was just a foul going for the ball, not a punch, not wiping out a guy going for a layup, not Ron Artest, Draymond Green or whatever.

From the NCAA Men's Basketball Rule Book, Rule 4, Section 15, Article 2(c):

(c) Flagrant personal fouls. Flagrant fouls are personal fouls that are deemed to be a more serious offense than a common foul. The penalty for a flagrant 1 foul is two free throws and possession of the ball for a throw-in. The penalty for a flagrant 2 foul is two free throws, possession of the ball for a throw-in, and ejection of the offending player.

1. Flagrant 1 personal foul. A flagrant 1 personal foul is a personal foul that is deemed excessive in nature (unwarranted or too much) and/or unnecessary (avoidable, uncalled for or not required by the circumstances of the play), but is not based solely on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to:

a) Causing excessive or unnecessary contact with an opponent;

b) Contact with an opponent that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player;

c) Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score. Depending on the severity of the contact and the potential for injury, this type of foul could rise to the level of a flagrant 2 foul;

d) Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;

e) Contact with a player making a throw-in;

f) Illegal contact caused by swinging of an elbow that is deemed excessive or unnecessary but does not rise to the level of a flagrant 2 personal foul (See Rule 4-18.7);

g) Illegal contact caused by a player hooking an opponent over or under the arm and which may lead the official to believe the contact was caused by the opponent. Depending on the nature of the contact, or the result of the contact, this foul could be considered a flagrant 2 foul; and

h) Contact with an opponent that is not the result of a normal basketball play. “Normal basketball play” is defined as any activity by a player, including incidental contact, which is generally accepted as that which occurs in a basketball game when the player is attempting to make a legal offensive or defensive play.​

2. Flagrant 2 personal foul. A flagrant 2 personal foul is a personal foul that involves contact with an opponent that is not only excessive, but also severe (brutal, harsh, cruel) or extreme (dangerous, punishing), while the ball is live. In determining whether a foul has risen to the level of a flagrant 2, officials should consider the following:

a) The severity of the contact;

b) Whether a player is making a legitimate effort to block a shot. Note that a player may still be assessed a flagrant 2 foul on an attempted blocked shot when there are other factors, such as hard contact to the head or the defender winding up or emphatically following through with the contact. Depending on the nature of the contact, or the result of the contact, this foul also could be considered a flagrant 1 or common personal foul;

c) The potential for injury resulting from the contact (e.g., a blow to the head or a foul committed while the player was in a vulnerable position). Depending on the nature of the contact, or the result of the contact, the foul also could be considered a flagrant 1 or common personal foul;

d) Any contact by the offending player to the groin area of an opponent which is not clearly accidental; and

e) Any foul similar to the foul described in Rule 4-15.2.c.1.g in which the contact, or the result of the contact, is not only excessive but also severe or extreme.​

Note: The above acts represent examples of potential flagrant 2 fouls. Other acts may also qualify, if they meet the criteria of being not only excessive but also severe or extreme.​

I think Brock should've been assessed a flagrant 1, but a case can be made that there was a "potential for injury resulting from the contact (e.g., a blow to the head or a foul committed while the player was in a vulnerable position)." While the player was not hurt, he was pushed headfirst into a table. A concussion or neck injury were well within the range of possibilities.

 

[LHABSOB]

I think Brock should've been assessed a flagrant 1, but a case can be made that there was a "potential for injury resulting from the contact (e.g., a blow to the head or a foul committed while the player was in a vulnerable position)." While the player was not hurt, he was pushed headfirst into a table. A concussion or neck injury were well within the range of possibilities.

I also thought Flagrant 1 but don't have an issue with them calling the Flagrant 2. But I don't see him as some kind of villian or that there will be any hangover effect here, either from the team or the officials. And I sure as hell don't think that there is any action for RT to take

I've been pissed at Brock that we haven't been getting this play from him all season. He had 9 pts, 7 boards and 2 assists before the ejection. That's the kind of production we have needed from him. I thought Tuesday was the reappearance of Shedrick too which we will need in this final run. Mitchell continues to look lost in the flow of both offense and defense and continues to just rely on his athleticism to make plays.

 

[NJlonghorn]

I also thought Flagrant 1 but don't have an issue with them calling the Flagrant 2. But I don't see him as some kind of villian or that there will be any hangover effect here, either from the team or the officials. And I sure as hell don't think that there is any action for RT to take

I've been pissed at Brock that we haven't been getting this play from him all season. He had 9 pts, 7 boards and 2 assists before the ejection. That's the kind of production we have needed from him. I thought Tuesday was the reappearance of Shedrick too which we will need in this final run. Mitchell continues to look lost in the flow of both offense and defense and continues to just rely on his athleticism to make plays.

I agree with everything you say. If Brock and Shedrick can get going (and ideally, Mitchell too), the pressure on Disu and Abmas will be dialed back. The team has the talent to make a run if the pieces fall together on time.

I find it interesting that most folks say that success in CBB is all about how you do in the conference and NCAA tourneys, yet so many people are ready to judge this team (and its coach) based on a regular season that hasn't even been completed. Let's give this team a chance before we pass judgment!

 

[VYFan]

From the NCAA Men's Basketball Rule Book, Rule 4, Section 15, Article 2(c):

(c) Flagrant personal fouls. Flagrant fouls are personal fouls that are deemed to be a more serious offense than a common foul. The penalty for a flagrant 1 foul is two free throws and possession of the ball for a throw-in. The penalty for a flagrant 2 foul is two free throws, possession of the ball for a throw-in, and ejection of the offending player.

1. Flagrant 1 personal foul. A flagrant 1 personal foul is a personal foul that is deemed excessive in nature (unwarranted or too much) and/or unnecessary (avoidable, uncalled for or not required by the circumstances of the play), but is not based solely on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to:

a) Causing excessive or unnecessary contact with an opponent;

b) Contact with an opponent that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player;

c) Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score. Depending on the severity of the contact and the potential for injury, this type of foul could rise to the level of a flagrant 2 foul;

d) Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;

e) Contact with a player making a throw-in;

f) Illegal contact caused by swinging of an elbow that is deemed excessive or unnecessary but does not rise to the level of a flagrant 2 personal foul (See Rule 4-18.7);

g) Illegal contact caused by a player hooking an opponent over or under the arm and which may lead the official to believe the contact was caused by the opponent. Depending on the nature of the contact, or the result of the contact, this foul could be considered a flagrant 2 foul; and

h) Contact with an opponent that is not the result of a normal basketball play. “Normal basketball play” is defined as any activity by a player, including incidental contact, which is generally accepted as that which occurs in a basketball game when the player is attempting to make a legal offensive or defensive play.​

2. Flagrant 2 personal foul. A flagrant 2 personal foul is a personal foul that involves contact with an opponent that is not only excessive, but also severe (brutal, harsh, cruel) or extreme (dangerous, punishing), while the ball is live. In determining whether a foul has risen to the level of a flagrant 2, officials should consider the following:

a) The severity of the contact;

b) Whether a player is making a legitimate effort to block a shot. Note that a player may still be assessed a flagrant 2 foul on an attempted blocked shot when there are other factors, such as hard contact to the head or the defender winding up or emphatically following through with the contact. Depending on the nature of the contact, or the result of the contact, this foul also could be considered a flagrant 1 or common personal foul;

c) The potential for injury resulting from the contact (e.g., a blow to the head or a foul committed while the player was in a vulnerable position). Depending on the nature of the contact, or the result of the contact, the foul also could be considered a flagrant 1 or common personal foul;

d) Any contact by the offending player to the groin area of an opponent which is not clearly accidental; and

e) Any foul similar to the foul described in Rule 4-15.2.c.1.g in which the contact, or the result of the contact, is not only excessive but also severe or extreme.​

Note: The above acts represent examples of potential flagrant 2 fouls. Other acts may also qualify, if they meet the criteria of being not only excessive but also severe or extreme.​

I think Brock should've been assessed a flagrant 1, but a case can be made that there was a "potential for injury resulting from the contact (e.g., a blow to the head or a foul committed while the player was in a vulnerable position)." While the player was not hurt, he was pushed headfirst into a table. A concussion or neck injury were well within the range of possibilities.

The description of flagrant one is exactly what the play was. As far as the potential for injury, the reason I can go along with that conclusion (and maybe this isn’t even in the rule) is the potential for hurting fans, coaches, announcers, etc when you knock a player off the sideline with that much push. I.e., the location on the floor colors your perception of the contact; if it happened at midcourt and the Tech player went sprawling headfirst into nothing, it wouldn’t have even been flagrant.
But I suppose we are over analyzing a two-second incident.

 

[Walking Boss]

But I suppose we are over analyzing a two-second incident.

That sentiment has no place on Hornfans or the internet really.

 

[BLucky]

and on March 10, we can add on baseball.

Include Women's basketball, volleyball, and probably every other sport they pretend to compete in...