Who or what is the Beast in Revelation?

[Monahorns]

HHD. Reading Daniel alongside Revelation is requirement to understand things. That and read things as literally as possible.

But even with that there are many areas of uncertainty. Find things you can pin down and be certain about. Let the other things remain uncertain.

 

[X Misn Tx]

when there is prophecy about the future i think there can be more harm than good in deciding some one person is the antiChrist and one specific country is a beast.

1) you're most likely to be one of many who have done the exact same thing for the last 2000 years ish.

2) some prophecy is revealed progressively, so what we see in part now may be somewhat different in the future when we can see it all.

4) some prophecies are so indirect as to not be able to see them for what they are until you are looking back in time (out of Egypt I have called my son...tear down this temple, and I will raise it in 3 days)

3) a lot of prophecy is intended to motivate readiness, not "i could see the mobil pegasus first coming into Dallas." competition. it's not a contest to see who gets the answers of prophecy first. ftr, it was almost always me who saw the pegasus first.

4) it is a validation to the truth to those who see it after... like the birth of Jesus to the Hebrews (and depending on how you see the tribulation and millennium)

just my two cents...
know the characteristics of the good guys and the bad guys. live like you're ready.

 

[Monahorns]

Did you read the series? I don't name a person or a country. I try to call out the things that are certain about the Beast which the Bible is clear on.

Then I draw conclusions on those principles found, which as you say, calls us to be ready. It also helps us understand what being ready means and what entities we should be wary of even if the Beast is still thousands of years away.

 

[Statalyzer]

But here is a good list of Bible verse suggesting a snatching up (rapture) before the Tribulation years: (Note - pdf link from a Calvary Church in Cedar Rapids: https://calvarycedarrapids.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Pre-Tribulation-Rapture.pdf)

That was a little interesting regarding 1st Thessalonians 4:3-18. They describe the Rapture as different from the Second Coming, which I can buy as a reasonable possibility.

But then they use that verse as an example of the former even though it speaks of the "coming of the Lord", and "coming down from heaven". So if that's the case, then the Second Coming is a misnomer; it would have to actually be the Third Coming.

Additionally, the context of that passage is reassuring people who were asking "What will happen to believers who die?" And the answer was that at some moment, they'll all rise to life be with Jesus, followed immediately by the ones who were already alive, and they'll all be that way forever. That doesn't much suggest any sort of Rapture event but does suggest the end of the age.

 

[Monahorns]

I agree Statalyzer. The idea of a Pre-Tribulation rapture is associated with some crazy groups and incorrect prophecies in the 1800s. 1 Thessalonians 4 is most likely about the 2nd coming of Christ not a half-way return in the sky just to bring Christians into heaven. You can combine 1 Thessalonians 4 with Matthew 24-25 and the picture becomes a bit clearer.

 

[BevoJoe]

The political implications of understanding the Beast.

The Beast of Revelation - Part 2

"The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months."

The "42 months" is close to a president's term in office which is 48. Just an observation.

 

[Monahorns]

I hadn't thought about it that way. But 3.5 years for the Antichrist is all over the Old and New Testaments. It sounds like it is linked to a 7 year treaty that is broken midway through. This doesn't align with an American Presidency. However, we are in tumultuous times and who knows where we end up.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

I think the beast is my next door neighbor, but I live at 668 E Broadway, so...

 

[Monahorns]

Is that in Lubbock? My parents used to live on Broadway in Lubbock down the road from Tech.

 

[Monahorns]

Here is another link to the Beast: the global sanctions regime against Russia. This parallel can't be taken too far, but the drive to cut dissenters off from the market is the spirit of AntiChrist. That means the US and EU are acting from the inspiration of the spirit of the AntiChrist when Western corporations end all business in Russia and cut them off from the global banking system. According to Daniel the AntiChrist or Beast rules a kind of reconstituted Roman Empire. So the patterns fit together.

Of course the most clear example of this spirit of AntiChrist is the Chinese social credit score. That is more in line with the principle. Still Canada has acted similarly against the Trucker Convoy, and now the US led sanctions against Russia.

 

[Statalyzer]

The "42 months" is close to a president's term in office which is 48. Just an observation.

So many things are close to 42 months that we could make it appear to be anything we wanted. I recall reading a book quite a while back that claimed most of Revelation was about the USA and WW2. At one point it noted that 12/7/41 to 5/7/45 is exactly 42 months. Almost sounded convincing until I realized he was using the Pacific War for the start date and the European War for the end date.

 

[Monahorns]

The 7 years and the 3.5 years comes out of Daniel 9. You have to understand the time period in context of where the time periods are mentioned. Also the time is related to a treaty and Jerusalem temple worship, not a war or a politicians term length

 

[LonghornCatholic]

I need to visit this forum more often….cool stuff. Here are some thoughts from a resource I go to often……………
What Daniel’s four beasts have in common is that they are all pagan kingdoms that persecuted and conquered God’s people, Israel. John’s beast is the same kind of thing—a conquering pagan empire. Since it comes after Daniel’s four beasts, Rome is the logical candidate. But it’s not a future, “restored Roman Empire.” It’s the real thing, the pagan Roman Empire of the early centuries. This is confirmed by several lines of evidence.

First, the book of Revelation is explicit in stating that it concerns events that will happen “soon” (1:1, 2:16, 3:11, 22:6, 7, 12, 20). This indicates that the bulk of the events of the book (those that precede the Millennium of Rev. 20:1-10, in which we are now living) should take place shortly after the book was written, likely in the A.D. 60s.

Second, we are told that the number of the beast is 666 and that this is the number of a man’s name (13:18). Not coincidentally, the persecuting, pagan Roman Empire was headed in the A.D. 60s by Caesar Nero, whose name happened to add up to 666 in the Hebrew system of letters and numbers. (In Hebrew, “Caesar Nero” = “NRWN QSR” = N 50 + R 200 + W 6 + N 50 + Q 100 + S 60 + R 200 = 666; a variant spelling of the name, NRW QSR, adds up to 616, which some manuscripts have in place of 666).

Third, the seven heads of the beast are identified as seven mountains (17:9). Though this is not certain, these are likely the seven hills on which the city of Rome was built. (Vatican Hill, however, was not one of the seven; it is on the side of the Tiber River opposite the seven.)

Thus there is good evidence that the beast from the sea is the pagan Roman Empire of the first century and, in particular, the emperor at its head. This, again, is like Daniel’s four beasts, who were described both as four kings (Dan 7:17) and four kingdoms (cf. Dan. 7:23).

Further confirmation is found in Revelation speaking of the Jewish temple as if it were still operating (11:1), but soon to be trampled by the gentiles, along with the holy city (11:2). Shortly after Nero’s reign, the gentiles did indeed invade Jerusalem, trample it, and destroy the temple.

This suggests not only that the beast corresponded to the Roman empire in general and Caesar Nero in particular but also that the book of Revelation itself was written sometime in the early A.D. 60s, during Nero’s reign, just before the Jewish War that led to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in A.D. 70.

 

[SabreHorn]

LC,

Great analysis.

I learned a long time ago that while Baptist and Catholics have significant differences in theology, NEVER argue with a devout Catholic because almost every devout Catholic knows more about the Scriptures than we do.

 

[LonghornCatholic]

ThNks Amigo. Many would be surprised how much more we actually agree and have in common

 

[Monahorns]

LC, much of what you say is in question but it is one possible interpretation. I'm Protestant so I know we won't agree on everything. Anyway, thanks for contributing to the discussion.

 

[LousianaHorn]

LC,

Great analysis.

I learned a long time ago that while Baptist and Catholics have significant differences in theology, NEVER argue with a devout Catholic because almost every devout Catholic knows more about the Scriptures than we do.

Found that out going to a catholic high school............

 

[LonghornCatholic]

Yes, Sir.

It wasn't stated as fact, just what the texts suggest from one perspective. But of course makes plausible sense to me.

 

[Monahorns]

I combined the 3 articles, cleaned it up quite a bit, and got it published.

The Beast in Revelation | Libertarian Christian Institute

 

[Chop]

Use greenback cash as much as possible. Bolster the cash economy and keep it flourishing.