Who or what is the Beast in Revelation?

[Monahorns]

A little bit more than he at first seems.

https://thecrosssectionrmb.blogspot.com/2021/06/the-beast-of-revelation-part-1.html

 

[Monahorns]

The political implications of understanding the Beast.

The Beast of Revelation - Part 2

 

[Driver 8]

There used to be interesting engagement on these topics around here

 

[Monahorns]

Yeah. Somethings things perk up a bit for a while still.

 

[Monahorns]

The Mark of the Beast is relevant for today. There are economic implications.

The Beast Of Revelation - Part 3

 

[mchammer]

There used to be interesting engagement on these topics around here

It became less relevant after Hillary lost (devil incarnate).

 

[Statalyzer]

Plenty of problems with, say, the Credit Score system or the Federal Reserve, but reading that as being The Beast (with some side ads for the author's favorite cryptocurrencies) seems like a huge stretch of logic to read the desired conclusion into the text. Too bad as it started out promising.

 

[SabreHorn]

I have said two things for years - the anti-Christ is Vladimir Putin.

Only one person he was afraid of and that was George H W Bush. Once Bush was gone, start practicing your Russian.

 

[Monahorns]

Plenty of problems with, say, the Credit Score system or the Federal Reserve, but reading that as being The Beast (with some side ads for the author's favorite cryptocurrencies) seems like a huge stretch of logic to read the desired conclusion into the text. Too bad as it started out promising.

For clarification, I am not saying those things ARE the beast. I am saying they are in the mold or type of what we read about in Revelation. Maybe precursors, maybe not. I am not being dogmatic about it.

My point about cryptocurrencies also isn't about bitcoin per se, it is about building parallel systems that exist outside of the current centrally planned and controlled systems.

Sorry it didn't end as well as it started. Can I ask, what was promising about the start maybe I can think more about some things.

 

[Monahorns]

I have said two things for years - the anti-Christ is Vladimir Putin.

Only one person he was afraid of and that was George H W Bush. Once Bush was gone, start practicing your Russian.

I don't think we are close to seeing who the anti-Christ is, but Putin is just a petty dictator who threatens no one outside of Russia.

 

[huisache]

For two thousand years every generation has those who identify this mythical critter with some contemporary baddie

Hillary, Putin are latest iterations. Some kid still in diapers whining to his mom about a rash this morning will be perceived as such in a few decades

I am more concerned with the cable guy getting me up for an 11 am kickoff

 

[Monahorns]

For two thousand years every generation has those who identify this mythical critter with some contemporary baddie

Hillary, Putin are latest iterations. Some kid still in diapers whining to his mom about a rash this morning will be perceived as such in a few decades

I am more concerned with the cable guy getting me up for an 11 am kickoff

Are you saying that I have tried to identify the beast in the current day? If you haven't read the article please go back and do. I'm not trying to do that. I am identifying patterns and suggesting courses of action for Christians to take to prepare.

Definitely Hillary and Putin don't fit the bill. No idea who does.

 

[AC]

Back in the early 2000's I was asked to teach on Daniel and Revelations. Whew, that was tough. I would think the central bank digital currency system if it is rolled out with a digital ID chip (ID2020), to be inserted into your wrist or head. That would fit the bill for Revelation prophecy that money would be cashless, and ID scans would be part of it. I believe how money is transacted will be a part of this mark of the beast. I have "heard" vaccine marks and things like that. I choose to pray and hold on to my faith. It doesn't matter how Satan tries to do us in, what matters is resisting this. I am very disheartened by the sin and hatred we are now seeing from most Politicians and public figures, many are supposed to be leaders. I believe truly, the sin and corruption is far worse than most can even imagine. That is why the Media can pull the wool over so many peoples eyes. Most of us cannot imagine the level of sin and corruption already here on this Earth with us. Below is a good article about the modern day "money changers". Jesus pushed over their tables and ran them out of business in front of the temple. Well, there at it again and it is far worse this time around! I am referring to the Central Bank families that control all of the money supply on the Earth. There are only 13 families. That is where the sin begins and ends! Below is an article about this:

Becoming a Cashless Society—A Financial Sign of the End Times

 

[SabreHorn]

Back in the early 2000's I was asked to teach on Daniel and Revelations.

It's "Revelation"

 

[Statalyzer]

My point about cryptocurrencies also isn't about bitcoin per se, it is about building parallel systems that exist outside of the current centrally planned and controlled systems.

Given the political dominance and tyranny of the Beast, wouldn't he be likely to use centrally-planned and tightly-controlled systems?

 

[Monahorns]

Given the political dominance and tyranny of the Beast, wouldn't he be likely to use centrally-planned and tightly-controlled systems?

Yes, absolutely. But we know from Scripture that a person can't buy or sell without accepting the Mark of the Beast. That means the person can't buy food, so if there is no way to feed yourself outside of the Beast's system, then all the Christians die pretty quick. However, some survive through that time period, which means there must have been some kind of black market in existence which provided for their needs.

What I am saying is that those black markets, parallel systems, don't get spring up from nothing. Christians need to stat building them at some point. To do that you need a parallel currency of some kind.

 

[AC]

Yes, absolutely. But we know from Scripture that a person can't buy or sell without accepting the Mark of the Beast. That means the person can't buy food, so if there is no way to feed yourself outside of the Beast's system, then all the Christians die pretty quick. However, some survive through that time period, which means there must have been some kind of black market in existence which provided for their needs.

What I am saying is that those black markets, parallel systems, don't get spring up from nothing. Christians need to stat building them at some point. To do that you need a parallel currency of some kind.

Bitcoin, and having land to grow food on.

 

[Crockett]

It's my predisposition to expect the fate of the world to be in the hands of people who look like my family.... an amalgam of fair skinned, red headed, blondes, brunets and other caucasian looking folks. But look at what is happening with China with its burgeoning economy, corrupt all-powerful government and sophisticated artificial intelligence repression. The Beast may not be a Westerner. For all the folks who see Trump, Hillary, Obama and Biden as the antichrist... the scariest, most powerful villain on the world stage looks a lot more like Winnie the Pooh.

 

[Monahorns]

It's my predisposition to expect the fate of the world to be in the hands of people who look like my family.... an amalgam of fair skinned, red headed, blondes, brunets and other caucasian looking folks. But look at what is happening with China with its burgeoning economy, corrupt all-powerful government and sophisticated artificial intelligence repression. The Beast may not be a Westerner. For all the folks who see Trump, Hillary, Obama and Biden as the antichrist... the scariest, most powerful villain on the world stage looks a lot more like Winnie the Pooh.

Good thoughts. We always picture people we see on a day to day basis. Who knows where the Beast/AntiChrist will come from.

Part of me suspects Jewish just because of the how central Israel is in end times things. From the Bible we know he makes a political treaty and becomes repsonsible for a temple in Jerusalem. But then he suspends temple worship. So either Jewish or a people group described by the other descriptions in the Bible like Roman, Babylonian, or Greek. In history a Greek king and then a Roman general defiled the temple. The Beast will do the same thing.

 

[washparkhorn.2]

We had fantastic discussions on religion back in the day. Good to see the tradition remains.

* * * *​

I am beginning to study the Book of Revelation and it occurred to me that I read the Bible as someone believes in pre-Tribulation Rapture - with non-believers left behind to face the Tribulation.

It makes for a very different reading of the Book of Revelation if one believes in post-tribulation rapture, I would think.

Does anyone have any good Bible study guides or tips for approaching Revelation given the pre/post tribulation split? Thanks in advance.

 

[SabreHorn]

Gregg Matte, senior pastor of Houston's First Baptist Church covered the book in an entire series last year. Each sermon is 30-35 minutes and is available free online on the church's website.

www.houstonsfirst.org

 

[washparkhorn.2]

Thank you @SabreHorn. Spot on. I was raised in a First Baptist Church in Texas. This was Church doctrine as far as I knew from Bible School and Sunday School. We were told we will be in the clouds with those who passed before us and in the presence of God during the trouble below. We were also passionately lectured on the consequences of being left behind - there would Hell, Fire and Brimstone. As a kid, I wondered why everyone around me was so calm.

When the preacher later warned us against mingling with those heathen Methodist and Catholic girls, I knew I would need to personally verify his veracity. A preacher shouldn't say such things; it only encourages a crooked path. It was difficult enough without a dare like that.

But I digress . . . Back to the Beast - I remember the EU as the Beast. It may still be a thing in some parts. The statues of Europa riding the Beast caused a fuss.

 

[Statalyzer]

I am beginning to study the Book of Revelation and it occurred to me that I read the Bible as someone believes in pre-Tribulation Rapture - with non-believers left behind to face the Tribulation.

Does that even come from Revelation at all? Isn't it based on Matthew 24:40-41 (which just says "two will be ... one taken, the other left" with very little hint about the criteria will be)?

 

[Monahorns]

Does anyone have any good Bible study guides or tips for approaching Revelation given the pre/post tribulation split? Thanks in advance.

The hard part about eschatology is that it is all over the Bible and you have to interpret all those things together.

My advice would be to read various books, then pray for understanding, and think carefully how all the verses live together.

There is much more than this but I would say. Reade Revelation and Daniel together. There is tons of overlap. Next it is important to read Matthew 23-24, Zechariah, and Joel. If you get that far look into some more New Testament in 1 Corinthians 15, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:11, and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12.

I know that is too much, but trust me. It is all relevant. I encourage you to prayerfully read through these passages and comment on this thread or send me a note. I would even meet with you personally to talk through it.

 

[Monahorns]

Does that even come from Revelation at all? Isn't it based on Matthew 24:40-41 (which just says "two will be ... one taken, the other left" with very little hint about the criteria will be)?

You are right Statalyzer. There is nothing in Revelation indicating pre vs post tribulation rapture.

I think you are correct about Matthew 24 even though that is not what those verses is about. In those verses the people "taken" are judged and the people left are safe. There is also a vague comment in 1 Thessalonians 1:10 about believers being rescued from the wrath to come.

 

[washparkhorn.2]

Does that even come from Revelation at all? Isn't it based on Matthew 24:40-41 (which just says "two will be ... one taken, the other left" with very little hint about the criteria will be)?

I have not studied the whether there is a rapture in any great detail. We believers end up at the same final destination is my understanding.

But here is a good list of Bible verse suggesting a snatching up (rapture) before the Tribulation years: (Note - pdf link from a Calvary Church in Cedar Rapids: https://calvarycedarrapids.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Pre-Tribulation-Rapture.pdf) Some of the sources are in Revelation (and the OT), as well many NT books, aside from Revelation.

As you know and for context, there are some Protestant Christians who believe in pre-wrath rapture (mid-way through the Tribulation), before the wrath during the Tribulation, as well as others who believe in post-Tribulation rapture (believers cloaked from harm by Faith).

I am putting the pre/mid/post rapture issue on my Bible study bucket list.

 

[washparkhorn.2]

The hard part about eschatology is that it is all over the Bible and you have to interpret all those things together.

My advice would be to read various books, then pray for understanding, and think carefully how all the verses live together.

There is much more than this but I would say. Reade Revelation and Daniel together. There is tons of overlap. Next it is important to read Matthew 23-24, Zechariah, and Joel. If you get that far look into some more New Testament in 1 Corinthians 15, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:11, and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12.

I know that is too much, but trust me. It is all relevant. I encourage you to prayerfully read through these passages and comment on this thread or send me a note. I would even meet with you personally to talk through it.

Thank you Brother.

 

[BevoJoe]

I came across this info about the "Beast" in Revelations:

"The records of Revelations 17:2-3 and Revelations 13:1 show this beast to represent the kings of the earth. Furthermore, the revelation in Daniel 7 of four beasts comprising a lion, bear and leopard also correlates with the seven-headed beast as shown to John in Revelations 13:2 having the same features of the lion, bear and leopard. Thus the beast represents the kingdoms that will bear rule over the world from Adam until the second coming of Christ. While in the spirit, this beast is seen as a personality as in Revelation 19:20, in the physical he is represented at different ages throughout the period of human existence as different kingdoms. The import of this interpretation is that as the ***** of Babylon is seen to be riding this beast, the beast is the seat of operation of the ***** from where she is expressed, and by whom her dominion is exercised."

That's all I got.

 

[Monahorns]

The beasts in Revelation and Daniel are kingdoms but also at times represented by individual men. There is a beast, one man, who will rule and do the things written about in the Bible.

 

[HornHuskerDad]

We had a study of Revelation in our Bible Study Fellowship class a couple years ago. Having gone through the study, I'm more confused than before. At this point, I'm inclined to say that the things that are beyond my understanding just highlight the need to place my faith in God - He has promised us that Christians will be taken care of eternally. And that's the fruit of our faith.