Post Moderate looniness here

Driver 8

Driver 8

Amor Fati
My neighbor is one of those crazy middle-wing types and he told me he is in favor of sensible tax reform
What a kook!
 
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I believe that I am a moderate:

Social Justice: Hugely in favor, I just don’t believe it’s the government’s role. I’ve volunteered hundreds of hours and donated thousands of dollars to religious organizations and non-profits. I’ve sat on several non-profit boards and started 2 non-profits. I’ve worked with the youth in our church and had several come stay with us when they needed to not be in their house (you wouldn’t call them homes). I’ve sat with teenagers as they walked me through their attempted suicides. I’ve said it before here, we have rendered unto Caesar what is God’s for too long.

Healthcare: We say healthcare reform, but what we are really addressing is healthcare insurance. My son was on one of the Obamacare plans when he was diagnosed with cancer. His initial stay in the hospital was over $120K. He was diagnosed in December and passed away the following March. His costs were well over $1M. Without Obamacare we would be dead broke. I went into the emergency room with a kidney stone, was there for about 2 hours. The bill was over $12K. We’re retired now and our monthly health insurance bill is more than our mortgage as we’re not yet Medicare eligible. I don’t know the answer to this one, but the system is horrendously broken.

Taxes: Even in retirement I’m paying more than in taxes than the current poverty level. I propose moving to a sales tax. You want to lower your taxes, buy less (and increase your savings, which is a good thing). To offset the proportionality of overly taxing low income, I suggest refunding every household the sales tax percentage times the poverty level. For example, if the poverty level is $10,000 and the sales tax is 10%, refund every household $1,000. So, if you are at the poverty level and spend everything you make, you end up paying $0 in taxes. Below, you actually make a little. But the guy who is buying boats and airplanes pays a good chunk of change. Again, if you want to lower your taxes, don’t buy stuff. I’d tax at every exchange (wholesale and retail) and both company and individual so you don’t have loopholes. And I’d double the tax on imports.

Government: I’ve served on 2 city councils (small towns, no pay). And I’ve done some lobbying at the state level. State legislators think they are little-g gods, I can only imagine what egos there are at the federal level. The closer government is to the people, the better. My claim to fame in both cities I served was we were able to take city property taxes to zero, nothing, nada, zilch. We learned to live off sales tax.

Abortion: Yes, I said the A-word. I’ve worked with hundreds of youth. I’ve never looked at a child, regardless of their circumstances (and some have been just awful) and thought they’d be better off dead. Why in the world do we legalize killing the victim to protect the perpetrator? It makes no sense, and totally breaks my heart.

Sexualizing/genderizing minors: Being a kid today is hard enough. Get out of their face with that stuff. If, as an adult, you want to play ken=barbie, whatever. The human brain isn’t done growing and doesn’t stabilize until around 25, let kids be kids, not your real-life doll to play dress up with. Kids have questions, yes. Let them have questions until they figure it out for themselves, don’t force your agenda on them.


Any hot topics I missed??????
 
Immigration: I grew up on a ranch in central Texas. My school system was over 80% Mexican-American and over 10% black. (Which is why I'm totally befuddled by racism. If I was racist, I'd be dead by now). I saw American workers, documented workers and undocumented workers. They all worked just as hard and for the same pay. I sympathize with those coming across and working migrant jobs. Those are hard jobs, and the workers are hard working. I don't sympathize with coming across to live on welfare or coming across as non-workers. There is a legal path, and it needs to be followed. So, I would be in favor of a migrant worker visa/path to citizenship. There is a space for migrant workers, but there needs to be a legal path.

Chili: My wife makes chili with beans. If I order chili con carne in a restaurant, I expect no beans. So I'm on the fence by marriage decree (for better or worse).

BBQ: What the hell is pork BBQ? I grew up in Lockhart and lived in Lexington (home of Snow's BBQ). Pork BBQ is an abomination (I'm pretty sure that's what was referred to in Revelation).
 
Facing Addiction said:
I believe that I am a moderate:

Social Justice: Hugely in favor, I just don’t believe it’s the government’s role. I’ve volunteered hundreds of hours and donated thousands of dollars to religious organizations and non-profits. I’ve sat on several non-profit boards and started 2 non-profits. I’ve worked with the youth in our church and had several come stay with us when they needed to not be in their house (you wouldn’t call them homes). I’ve sat with teenagers as they walked me through their attempted suicides. I’ve said it before here, we have rendered unto Caesar what is God’s for too long.

Healthcare: We say healthcare reform, but what we are really addressing is healthcare insurance. My son was on one of the Obamacare plans when he was diagnosed with cancer. His initial stay in the hospital was over $120K. He was diagnosed in December and passed away the following March. His costs were well over $1M. Without Obamacare we would be dead broke. I went into the emergency room with a kidney stone, was there for about 2 hours. The bill was over $12K. We’re retired now and our monthly health insurance bill is more than our mortgage as we’re not yet Medicare eligible. I don’t know the answer to this one, but the system is horrendously broken.

Taxes: Even in retirement I’m paying more than in taxes than the current poverty level. I propose moving to a sales tax. You want to lower your taxes, buy less (and increase your savings, which is a good thing). To offset the proportionality of overly taxing low income, I suggest refunding every household the sales tax percentage times the poverty level. For example, if the poverty level is $10,000 and the sales tax is 10%, refund every household $1,000. So, if you are at the poverty level and spend everything you make, you end up paying $0 in taxes. Below, you actually make a little. But the guy who is buying boats and airplanes pays a good chunk of change. Again, if you want to lower your taxes, don’t buy stuff. I’d tax at every exchange (wholesale and retail) and both company and individual so you don’t have loopholes. And I’d double the tax on imports.

Government: I’ve served on 2 city councils (small towns, no pay). And I’ve done some lobbying at the state level. State legislators think they are little-g gods, I can only imagine what egos there are at the federal level. The closer government is to the people, the better. My claim to fame in both cities I served was we were able to take city property taxes to zero, nothing, nada, zilch. We learned to live off sales tax.

Abortion: Yes, I said the A-word. I’ve worked with hundreds of youth. I’ve never looked at a child, regardless of their circumstances (and some have been just awful) and thought they’d be better off dead. Why in the world do we legalize killing the victim to protect the perpetrator? It makes no sense, and totally breaks my heart.

Sexualizing/genderizing minors: Being a kid today is hard enough. Get out of their face with that stuff. If, as an adult, you want to play ken=barbie, whatever. The human brain isn’t done growing and doesn’t stabilize until around 25, let kids be kids, not your real-life doll to play dress up with. Kids have questions, yes. Let them have questions until they figure it out for themselves, don’t force your agenda on them.


Any hot topics I missed??????
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Your volunteer work is valuable and appreciated. However, until volunteers pick up the tab for tens of millions of dollars in costs for foster care/ residential treatment centers, Caesar needs to be involved.

It is not healthcare insurance that needs to be addressed, it is healthcare costs. Those costs are enormous because the government forces hospitals to pay for folks that haven't bought, or can't afford health insurance. Some of those costs are funded by property taxes. Regardless, those that can afford health insurance are still paying for those that don't buy health insurance. Your insurance costs are a direct result of high costs paid to healthcare providers. In other words, your personal health insurance premiums are a result of the ridiculous charges your health insurance providers charged you for healthcare. They charged those ridiculous amounts to make up for the uninsured they are forced to serve.
 
Facing Addiction said:
Healthcare: We say healthcare reform, but what we are really addressing is healthcare insurance. My son was on one of the Obamacare plans when he was diagnosed with cancer. His initial stay in the hospital was over $120K. He was diagnosed in December and passed away the following March. His costs were well over $1M. Without Obamacare we would be dead broke. I went into the emergency room with a kidney stone, was there for about 2 hours. The bill was over $12K. We’re retired now and our monthly health insurance bill is more than our mortgage as we’re not yet Medicare eligible. I don’t know the answer to this one, but the system is horrendously broken.
Click to expand...

People on the Right hate when I say it, but we will one day have a government-oriented system. The reason why is that we have uncompromising policy goals that are inconsistent with a truly private system, and the reality is that we already have a government system. We just pretend we don't. Specifically, we're not going to deny care (especially emergency care) to people because of the inability to pay. Well, that means government is going to be in the mix, and sure enough, it is - in the form of Medicare and Medicaid, which are economic and fiscal monstrosities. We just aren't getting any of the potential upside - broad coverage, lower costs, etc. Eventually, the public is going to push for it, and it's just a matter of if we get something like what Germany has (public option with a small private insurance market and almost all private medical providers) or go insane and create something like the UK's NHS (government funded and government administered national healthcare system), which would be catastrophic.

Facing Addiction said:
BBQ: What the hell is pork BBQ? I grew up in Lockhart and lived in Lexington (home of Snow's BBQ). Pork BBQ is an abomination (I'm pretty sure that's what was referred to in Revelation).
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Pork ribs and sausage aren't BBQ? You're a nut.
 
Mr. Deez said:
People on the Right hate when I say it, but we will one day have a government-oriented system. The reason why is that we have uncompromising policy goals that are inconsistent with a truly private system, and the reality is that we already have a government system. We just pretend we don't. Specifically, we're not going to deny care (especially emergency care) to people because of the inability to pay. Well, that means government is going to be in the mix, and sure enough, it is - in the form of Medicare and Medicaid, which are economic and fiscal monstrosities. We just aren't getting any of the potential upside - broad coverage, lower costs, etc. Eventually, the public is going to push for it, and it's just a matter of if we get something like what Germany has (public option with a small private insurance market and almost all private medical providers) or go insane and create something like the UK's NHS (government funded and government administered national healthcare system), which would be catastrophic.



Pork ribs and sausage aren't BBQ? You're a nut.
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First, I agree. We will (and should) have a government based system. Those who wish to do so will purchase care above/beyond. The issue that I see is that in 1960 primary docs made money commensurate with lawyers, bank presidents, etc. The growth of specialties, sub-specialties, etc. leads docs to moving into specialty care because they want to make more than a simple primary care doc. I could buy into the argument that "big student loan" and the infrastructure that colleges and medical schools have driven over the last half century have created that monster. I think there are many public health models. We only see Canada/UK for our perception. There are better models out there.

Second, and much more importantly, I agree with Deez on this point. Pork ribs do count as BBQ.
 
As a moderate, one of my favorite songs is by Chrissie Hynde and the Pretenders:

"Middle of the Road"

:beertoast:

 
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bystander said:
Yeah!

Southside Market in Elgin has some killer sausage...
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I love a good sausage, and I know how very gay that sounds. Lol. I really liked what they served at City Market in Luling. Miller's in Belton has some great jalapeno jack sausage for takeaway.

Some of the best I've ever had was in Germany though served grilled from a little kiosk in the parking lot of a Home Depot-like store. It was a little spicy and smoky in flavor with Emmentaler cheese inside ("käsewurst). Amazing stuff.
 
Facing Addiction said:
Yes on sausage and ribs, but not that shredded pork stuff drowned in vinegar.
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Drowned in vinegar, no...and not just no, but HELL NO!

That said, on rare occasion, I have been able to enjoy a pulled pork sandwich provided that the pork was properly smoked.

But I don't go to a proper barbeque joint in Texas looking for pulled pork. Brisket or ribs...bonus points if they have the big Fred Flintstone beef ribs that come in at more than a pound each...you can eat on those for a couple of days.
 
OUBubba said:
First, I agree. We will (and should) have a government based system. Those who wish to do so will purchase care above/beyond.
Click to expand...

I don't think we should. I think the government will screw it up like it screws up almost everything it touches and like it's already screwing up healthcare and health insurance. I just accept that it's going to happen either way and has essentially already happened.

OUBubba said:
The issue that I see is that in 1960 primary docs made money commensurate with lawyers, bank presidents, etc. The growth of specialties, sub-specialties, etc. leads docs to moving into specialty care because they want to make more than a simple primary care doc. I could buy into the argument that "big student loan" and the infrastructure that colleges and medical schools have driven over the last half century have created that monster.
Click to expand...

I'm skeptical of the claim that the specialist versus primary care doc is a big driver of costs in the American system. At least in my experience (which is admittedly anecdotal), the cost of primary care doctors isn't the big difference between American care and European care. American primary care docs cost a little more, but it's not a blowout. The big difference is in specialist care and hospitalization costs. Specialists and hospitalization cost a fortune in the United States. In Europe a week in the hospital isn't a big deal from a cost standpoint. Plenty could afford it even without insurance. Even in a private hospital and outside of the government system, it simply doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

I've always suspected that the real root of the ridiculous costs in the US is the reliance on health insurance (both private and public), because it means everybody gets to bill a third-party payer with seemingly unlimited resources. That almost always leads to high costs.

OUBubba said:
I think there are many public health models. We only see Canada/UK for our perception. There are better models out there.
Click to expand...

Definitely. We lump all these systems together and dismiss them all as "socialized medicine," but they're very different. The NHS is ****. It's your doctor and hospital being taken over by postal workers and the DMV managers. They aren't rude, but they're lackadaisical like the government employees that they are. Furthermore, though you have choice in the sense that you can change doctors, you're going to get another NHS doctor. The boss isn't going to change, and that means the doctor isn't really changing. And frighteningly, if you need to see a specialist, that NHS GP is your only route outside of the ER. If he or she won't refer you to one, you are SoL.

The German system kept the practice of medicine private, so you have far more choices, and there's real difference in those choices. Furthermore, because the provider's money comes from treating patients rather than just a government check that shows up whether they treat patients or not, the quality of care is better. They actually give a crap. Even with government intervention, I think most Americans would be satisfied with this. I think most Americans would hate the NHS.

OUBubba said:
Second, and much more importantly, I agree with Deez on this point. Pork ribs do count as BBQ.
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Hell yes they count. The broken clock is right for the second time. You'll be full of **** until tomorrow. lol
 
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Mr. Deez said:
I don't think we should. I think the government will screw it up like it screws up almost everything it touches and like it's already screwing up healthcare and health insurance. I just accept that it's going to happen either way and has essentially already happened.



I'm skeptical of the claim that the specialist versus primary care doc is a big driver of costs in the American system. At least in my experience (which is admittedly anecdotal), the cost of primary care doctors isn't the big difference between American care and European care. American primary care docs cost a little more, but it's not a blowout. The big difference is in specialist care and hospitalization costs. Specialists and hospitalization cost a fortune in the United States. In Europe a week in the hospital isn't a big deal from a cost standpoint. Plenty could afford it even without insurance. Even in a private hospital and outside of the government system, it simply doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

I've always suspected that the real root of the ridiculous costs in the US is the reliance on health insurance (both private and public), because it means everybody gets to bill a third-party payer with seemingly unlimited resources. That almost always leads to high costs.



Definitely. We lump all these systems together and dismiss them all as "socialized medicine," but they're very different. The NHS is ****. It's your doctor and hospital being taken over by postal workers and the DMV managers. They aren't rude, but they're lackadaisical like the government employees that they are. Furthermore, though you have choice in the sense that you can change doctors, you're going to get another NHS doctor. The boss isn't going to change, and that means the doctor isn't really changing. And frighteningly, if you need to see a specialist, that NHS GP is your own route. If he or she won't refer you to one, you are SoL.

The German system kept the practice of medicine private, so you have far more choices, and there's real difference in those choices. Furthermore, because the provider's money comes from treating patients rather than just a government check that shows up whether they treat patients or not, the quality of care is better. They actually give a crap. Even with government intervention, I think most Americans would be satisfied with this. I think most Americans would hate the NHS.



Hell yes they count. The broken clock is right for the second time. You'll be full of **** until tomorrow. lol
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Uncompensated care is our problem. Here's a quick example that I think I've done before. All hospitals are paid based on a medicare rate. There is a base rate and then each hospital has a modifier established annually by the medicare cost report. Think like GMT and then the time zones.

A knee surgery costs $5,000 on 100% base. In tulsa the hospitals ranged from roughly 138% of base to 65% of base - a range from about 6,900 to 3,200 for the same procedure. The difference is that the higher cost hospitals have a busier ER that brings in uninsured patients and they also have residency programs. The cheap hospitals are the physician owned hospitals that don't have ER's or any residency programs. They only treat insured people or people willing to pay cash. So when everyone has a payer source the care is better and cheaper. The patients and docs are better off as well.

Insurance companies may pay a specific rate related to the medicare rate. They used to pay off of billed charges but hospitals screwed that up by cheating the system and charging $7 for an aspirin. The smart ones started using the medicare methodology as a base.
 
OUBubba said:
Uncompensated care is our problem. Here's a quick example that I think I've done before. All hospitals are paid based on a medicare rate. There is a base rate and then each hospital has a modifier established annually by the medicare cost report. Think like GMT and then the time zones.

A knee surgery costs $5,000 on 100% base. In tulsa the hospitals ranged from roughly 138% of base to 65% of base - a range from about 6,900 to 3,200 for the same procedure. The difference is that the higher cost hospitals have a busier ER that brings in uninsured patients and they also have residency programs. The cheap hospitals are the physician owned hospitals that don't have ER's or any residency programs. They only treat insured people or people willing to pay cash. So when everyone has a payer source the care is better and cheaper. The patients and docs are better off as well.

Insurance companies may pay a specific rate related to the medicare rate. They used to pay off of billed charges but hospitals screwed that up by cheating the system and charging $7 for an aspirin. The smart ones started using the medicare methodology as a base.
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I suspect that even our "cheaper" hospitals are a lot more than European hospitals. I spent a week in a German hospital and had a crapload of diagnostic testing and treatment by the department head. The bill was about $1,000. In most American hospitals, that'll barely buy you dinner in a hospital.

Either way, the uncompensated care problem is a product of our expectation that people receive care regardless of ability to pay. That makes government involvement an inevitability.
 
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